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[personal profile] indecision
hey hey, does anyone know, canon (or fanon?) wise, what nathan did in the air force? or navy? i know he was a pilot, and votepetrelli.com said something about tours of duty in bosnia, something. but it's all very sketchy and such. was there an established timeline or any indication he was on the front line or he flew jet planes or. like, right now, in my head, he's totally that character of his from top gun, all surly and pretty and mostly silent. but also really really pretty. i have no clue, obviously. was he stationed in manila at some point or is that fanon as well? because it's all mixing up right now. like, was it canon as well he went to military school? because that would leave him entirely out of peter's childhood wouldn't it? or at least the first six years? gah.

IF THIS SOUNDS RIDICULOUSLY VAGUE HI WELCOME TO MY ENTIRE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE AMERICAN MILITARY.

um, hi?

Date: 2010-02-28 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rheakurokawa.livejournal.com
celine dion!

(very helpful i know)

Date: 2010-02-28 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
DON'T JUDGE ME.

ahem.

Date: 2010-02-28 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Okay! This is kind of my own fanon, basically, but I constructed it from canonical clues (up until canon got so wrong and self-contradictory I had to give up on it):

There was a web comic that had Nathan as a baby/small toddler while Arthur was in/just home from Vietnam. Granted, these things are not canon, but given all that Nathan has supposedly done in his life, he pretty much has to be that old. Or have the ability to be in two places at once. Which, so far, canon has given no indication of.

Peter, on the other hand, we have a firm canonical age on, because Angela says in season one, which was firmly established as October 2006, "Twenty-six years old, and he's going to die of a heart attack," during one of Peter's various S1 comas. Anyway, that means Peter was born in 1980.

Claire was born in 1990, based on her original age of 16-ish, but, again, canon went completely off the rails on her age, so who the heck knows? BUT, if she was born in 1990, that actually works out unbelievably perfectly, and I will explain why in a second.

Nathan was in the Navy. I can't remember the exact canonical reference, but I'm pretty sure that was explicitly canon. In the deleted bit of the Petrelli brunch scene, they reference him going to Annapolis, aka, the Naval Academy, which I'm sure he did. Nathan does not seem like the enlisted-man type. ;) SO, I and a couple other writers have also assumed that he also went to a military boarding school, because he's a Petrelli and an overachiever, etc etc, and would want to make 100% sure that if he was in the military he was going to be the goddamn best military officer ever. The boarding school part was actually confirmed in late season three, because of Liam at the Capitol, one of Nathan's old schoolmates.

So then he'd have gone to Annapolis, and then on to what they called API (Aviation Preflight Indoctrination, how very military-sounding...) which is in Pensacola, Florida, and THEN--this is the kind of cool part--he would have gone to Kingsville, TX to do intermediate/advanced flight training, from about July 1989-February 1990, which means he was in Texas at the perfect time to have met Meredith and conceived Claire. I can't begin to imagine that the producers would have figured that out on their own, so I consider it a really lucky coincidence.

One thing that IS kinda sorta maybe canon is Nathan's campaign ad from season one, which claims he served in Bosnia and Rwanda, which took place in the early- to mid-nineties, though I think the US was only involved towards the end of Bosnia, and I'm not sure what the exact US involvement was in Rwanda. That messes with my timeline a bit, and really, my timeline becomes almost completely my own fanon at that point, because that's when I have Nathan leaving the family for awhile in response to the apparent deaths of Meredith and Claire in 1992. BUT, to get him involved in Bosnia and/or Rwanda, he'd have to have stayed with the military longer than the required two years or whatever, so something made him stay until approximately 1994/1995-ish.

And then there was law school, for six or so years.

tl;dr version: Nathan was most likely largely absent for all of Peter's childhood, from birth to at least mid-teens. And he was in the Navy. Whether he could be the guy in Top Gun depends on how flexible the dates are for that movie, because it was released in 1986, and Nathan should have been there in 1989. :p

Date: 2010-02-28 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Oh, and I have no idea about Manila.

Date: 2010-02-28 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Also, [livejournal.com profile] snopes_faith just pointed out that you probably have to stay with the military longer than two years, which is probably right... it's been quite awhile since i did the research to establish that timeline.

Date: 2010-02-28 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
oh my god you are amazing i want to put you in my pocket and call you george thank you.

because i've been trying like hell to figure this out? canon keeps talking about them doing shit together when they were both kids and i keep thinking "when, exactly? when." and then not really coming up with a valid answer!

okay question, annapolis is the naval academy so he would have gone there instead of to college? or rather that is college? peter would have been um, six when nathan entered annapolis? and before that he was in military school away from home and so likely only saw peter like, during the holidays? unless he didn't go to military school for some reason and then they might at least have grown up in the same house together.

man all this is so fascinating, like, peter's devotion to nathan and nathan's devotion to arthur, all when none of them were actually a major part of each other's lives for years.

Date: 2010-02-28 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Yeah, anything canon says about them being kids together has to be totally wrong.

As far as the incest pairing thing goes, it makes a lot more sense for them not to have known each other very well until Peter was an older teen...

Annapolis definitely is a college. A very well-respected college, too. :) Peter would have been five or six, yeah.

And like I said, him going to boarding school is technically canon and ALSO makes sense, so it wins both ways. *g* I am sure, however, that Peter did not go to boarding school. I suspect Angela wanted to keep an eye on him.

I sort of see it all as Nathan having been this fascinating, awe-inspiring presence at the peripheries of Peter's childhood, and Peter having been this one bright, innocent spot of light in the family for Nathan. But, obviously, I wrote a whole fic about that, so... I'm biased!

Date: 2010-02-28 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
As far as the incest pairing thing goes, it makes a lot more sense for them not to have known each other very well until Peter was an older teen...

no yeah, that actually makes sense, though i imagine nathan would have been home for christmas and stuff? summers and christmases? that's three months out of a year, most likely? and yeah i don't think peter went to boarding school. angela's tiny little big-eyed boy? never!

oh aw, them. *draws little hearts around them*

man this took me a while to figure out. i generally don't do pre-canon at all, so it's all a big mess for me, and then fanon seeps into your head because everyone sees their history together differently? but yes i like this it makes sense! *makes it so*

Date: 2010-03-01 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
*nods* I think that's right, about three months or so, although it's possible too that he'd be taking summer classes or going to camps sometimes and that would cut back on the time even more potentially.

Date: 2010-02-28 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
and by "it took me a while to figure this out" clearly i mean "i just sat there and waited for you to draw me a map and i am indebted to you forever thank you!"

ahem ahem.

also: the making of nathan petrelli <--still the best ever!

Date: 2010-03-01 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Hee. That timeline is my proudest achievement in the fandom. I spent a lot of time figuring it out before I started writing MoNP.

Date: 2010-02-28 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
Angela says in season one, which was firmly established as October 2006, "Twenty-six years old, and he's going to die of a heart attack," during one of Peter's various S1 comas. Anyway, that means Peter was born in 1980.

Unless you use Peter's passport as the canon date, the way I do. That gives you Peter's birth year as 1979. He's 26 in S1 because his birthday is Dec 23 and the entire timeline of S1 takes place before he turns 27.

Date: 2010-03-01 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Well, yes, granted, but that would be, what, six days before 1980? :) I have a little trouble trusting the validity of a prop that says Peter's female, though. *g*

Date: 2010-03-01 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
Aww, but it's fantastic. And certainly not untrue, given the tropes they use to write him! I'm honestly just way too fond of the idea of Peter as a Christmas baby. It plays so well into the neglected/cherished seesaw he was on.

Date: 2010-03-01 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 47-trek-47.livejournal.com
Hee, true. I also am rather fond of the notion of Peter as an almost-post-transition FtM. :) And I agree, too, that Peter does seem to have that Christmas baby complex. I just usually stick with my May birthday for him because it would be hard to change MoNP to fit a December birthday.

Date: 2010-03-01 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
I just usually stick with my May birthday for him because it would be hard to change MoNP to fit a December birthday.

Yeah, sometimes "canon" from other fic just sort of sticks around in your brain. I fanwanked Nathan not knowing Sylar was a Petrelli by inserting two miscarriages between Nathan's birth and Sylar's, so that the loss of "Gabriel Petrelli" would be something he knew about, accepted, and understood the secrecy for. Even though Sylar isn't a Petrelli, I sort of keep that in my head. It feels like it makes a lot of sense -- the Petrellis suffering the loss of more than one baby between Nathan and Peter, both as an explanation for Peter's odd childhood and the huge age gap.

Date: 2010-03-01 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
We usually go with Christmas because that's what the Wiki said when we first started looking these things up, but I love the idea of a spring baby. Spring baby! It's like a combination of two of my favourite things in the world.

(MoNP <-- ♥♥♥)

A.

Date: 2010-02-28 06:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sakura-no-mi.livejournal.com
Oh hai there.

Canon doesn't try very hard to be consistent. Here are a couple of canon tidbits that made my head hurt:

- Peter's birthday on his passport is listed as 12/23/79, but it also lists his sex as "F", so um... prop fail

- Peter talked about how Nathan was a "naval officer" who "rearranged his shore leave" so Peter could have a good birthday when he was a kid

- While getting drunk with Claire in Mexico, Nathan said that he'd be able to beat those college boys at the drinking game because he used to play the same game for extra spending money while on shore leave in Manila (guh? when was Nathan ever stationed in Asia?)

- In a Sylar!Nathan flashback from touching an airplane toy, Angela told him that he'd wanted to be a fighter pilot since he was 12 years old.

- When Sylar had leftover Nathan memories in his head, he talked about how Peter was upset when he was a kid that he lost the 50-yard dash to some other kid, so he and Nathan ran to school every morning so Peter could practice. When the hell did this happen? When Peter was five?

- In a deleted scene from Season 1, we found out that Nathan and Heidi met while Nathan was attending Annapolis. So I guess (???) they were "together" while he was active duty for four years all overseas and whatnot? I guess wouldn't be totally surprised that he was already with Heidi when he had the whole Meredith thing, but when did he and Heidi get married?

So I dunno... I kinda just went off, sorry. But based on canon facts, I mostly agree with what [livejournal.com profile] 47_trek_47 said ^__^

Date: 2010-02-28 08:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
oh ahahem i saw that! randomly, apparently sam winchester is listed as "F" somewhere as well. i guess some writers think that the characters are coded as the female of the relationship between the brothers? SO SOMEHOW THIS IS FUNNY TO THEM.

ah, thank you i knew manila was there somewhere and i hadn't just pulled it out of my ass. but man, does that not make sense at all. although ha, maybe at some point another child will show up with powers. nathan's sperm gets everywhere, it seems. cannot keep it in his pants. NATHAN.

that sylar memory is just nonsense omg!

and also i have this feeling that dating/marriage never got in the way of nathan's seeing anyone else? so maybe the heidi thing even makes sense omg nathan you're such a slut it's not even funny, boo.

and peter's birthday was at christmas? nathan would have been home anyway, right? but hey, at least THAT TIME they got the age difference correct, so props to them?

seriously though the canon is such a wreck it's just like, you gotta do your best and then make up the rest of it because otherwise your head will spin

Date: 2010-02-28 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sakura-no-mi.livejournal.com
OMG how hot would Nathan's half-Filipino love child be (guy or girl)? Then maybe Heroes would actually have some new racial diversity o_O

Date: 2010-02-28 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
super-hot. i say boy, he already has one illegitimate daughter! pretty, pretty half-filipino boy with superpowers omg!

Date: 2010-02-28 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mimesh.livejournal.com
And Claire would probably accidentally fall in love with him...

Date: 2010-02-28 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
i was totally thinking it? and then i was like "okay probably i shouldn't."

BUT THEN CLEARLY YOU ARE MORE AWESOME THAN I AM AND ARE WILLING TO COME OUT AND SAY IT.

because yes, i am shipping them already, hello. bonus points if his superpower is the same as nathan's (or perhaps something else?) what name shall we give him i feel he needs a name.

Date: 2010-02-28 10:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mimesh.livejournal.com
because yes, i am shipping them already, hello.

Ahahaha. Well, it's kind of inevitable. I can get totally get behind shipping Claire with her hot half-Filipino half-brother.

As for his power... hmm. Is Alex' power too obvious and thus lame? I would like for him to have a less kick ass power than Claire though. Superstrength is a tad macho but I'm really uncreative right now.

Date: 2010-02-28 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
No yes see, superstrength is kinda lame, but I'm so uncreative right now, too! Um, um, making things grow and bloom? That was such a pretty power.

Date: 2010-02-28 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
is alex the one that can breathe underwater or was that wes? and yes he totally needs a less kick-ass power than claire. although claire's power is really hard to beat, let's face it. maybe he can have a really pretty but kind of useless most of the time power like emma's, or bob bishop's. "i can turn objects into copper, claire!" "oh um, that's awesome, yay."

but anyway it would be hot, he'd look a lot like nathan when he was younger except better looking, if that's even possible. haha let's give him peter's hair, because peter's hair is lovely.

Date: 2010-02-28 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
okay A has suggested that his power should be superstrength. what do you think y/n?

Date: 2010-03-01 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sakura-no-mi.livejournal.com
OMG, you guys are so awesome, you don't even know! Hee.

May I make some name suggestions for Claire's half-brother? Going biblical on this one:

Andrew
Matthew
James
Jacob
Isaiah

Head!canon is the best! ^_^

Date: 2010-03-01 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
oooh i really like jacob! also, he's half filipino and his daddy's not around so it's possible his mom gave him a filipino surname or a spanish surname? like Reyes or Martinez or Javier? heh, Jacob Javier. nice.

Date: 2010-02-28 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
I'm fairly sure that Nathan's funeral alone confirms that he was a Naval pilot. I don't think they do the fly over for non-flight officers. He would have just gotten the twenty one gun salute, otherwise. Beyond that, the cover up story for his death is that he died in a small plane crash, which circles back to Nathan being a pilot, and I think the campaign commercial that plays in the background of the pilot says that he "flew missions" in Bosnia and Rwanda (let's pretend the US helped in Rwanda).

It's not fanon that he was stationed in Manila (or the Philippines, at least). That's canon as of Nathan's claims about being good at drinking games in "Into Asylum." Also canon that he went to military school, from "An Invisible Thread." They don't mention how many years, though. We don't know if he started when he was 12, or if he went to a military preparatory instead of a normal high school. Lately, I favor the latter, since it gives him more opportunities to know Peter. After military school, Nathan would have gone to Annapolis, followed by Pensacola for basic flight training, and probably Corpus Christi for further flight training. That all matches up well with how and when he could have met Meredith. Going to Manila, therefore, probably would have been after the fire and Meredith and Claire's supposed "deaths."

Date: 2010-03-01 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
so it's likely he was actually in a war (or two?) then and not just ambiguously gay on top gun in the navy? because his military past is never mentioned on the show except in passing. although that might/might not be the case, i don't know i don't actually have a clue what the US did in bosnia and rwanda (ah, that's what research is for i suppose. or terrible made for tv movies.)

We don't know if he started when he was 12, or if he went to a military preparatory instead of a normal high school. Lately, I favor the latter, since it gives him more opportunities to know Peter.

right because that throws him entirely out of peter's formative years! but like i told trekker, there's a possibility he came home during the summers, and they got attached to each other then. or ha, maybe he got kicked out of military school at some point and came home. likely not, though.

Date: 2010-03-01 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
so it's likely he was actually in a war (or two?) then

Well, he did whatever you think they'd put in a commercial. Just because Nathan was a Naval pilot at the time of Bosnia, it doesn't mean he really went. He probably did, since we've seen medals in his office, and because an officer's commission is long enough that he probably had to get injured and resign early in order to make the timeline work and go to law school on time. But, you know, it's a political ad. It doesn't have to be terribly true. Nathan may have been on an Naval carrier than went past Europe, for all we know.

but like i told trekker, there's a possibility he came home during the summers, and they got attached to each other then.

Oh, I definitely assume that Nathan was around for summers and holidays (plus, when else could he fall in love with Milly's daughter and be involved in her death?). I think their attachment, though, was largely made up in Peter's head. Even Angela says in the pilot that "you always hero worshipped him and your feelings were never returned." Now, I think that's Angela being purposefully uncharitable and manipulative about their present relationship, but I think it makes sense as a characterization of Peter's view of Nathan as a child. He adored the moments he spent with Nathan, and Nathan thought Peter was a kinda neat kid to talk on the phone to sometimes. Nathan presumably didn't get that attached to Peter until after he came back from the Navy and got to know Peter as a person.

or ha, maybe he got kicked out of military school at some point and came home. likely not, though.

LOL, if Nathan got kicked out, then I'm willing to bet the administrators either quickly rescinded it or were found floating in the Hudson.

Date: 2010-03-01 04:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
Just because Nathan was a Naval pilot at the time of Bosnia, it doesn't mean he really went. He probably did, since we've seen medals in his office, and because an officer's commission is long enough that he probably had to get injured and resign early in order to make the timeline work and go to law school on time.

ah, that might explain the scars then. or why they left the scars in. the pasdar's tv shows have the disturbing habit of trying to fade out the scars, which is mildly disconcerting because sometimes it's just really obvious how heavy his make-up is.

Nathan may have been on an Naval carrier than went past Europe, for all we know.

oh ha, ahem. you mean people fudge the truth during political campaigns? never! sexy fighter pilot is sexy though. let's pretend he blew up some shit with his bad-ass jet plane.

Oh, I definitely assume that Nathan was around for summers and holidays (plus, when else could he fall in love with Milly's daughter and be involved in her death?).

good point. i'd entirely forgotten about that. haha the girl peter still remembers, even though he would have been like, six at the time. i'm so glad your memories of your brother's girlfriends are so sharp, peter! what else do you remember from age six?

Date: 2010-03-01 05:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
To be fair, at least with the girl, I think Nathan probably would have moped about her and talked about her a lot. Milly is still a good friend of Angela's, so it's not like this isn't something Peter could not have learned from hearsay over the years. Or, you know, it's sort of more fun to imagine Nathan picking up chicks using his adorable baby brother as a prop, and Peter remembering the one that became an actual girlfriend.

Date: 2010-03-01 07:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mumblemutter.livejournal.com
Or, you know, it's sort of more fun to imagine Nathan picking up chicks using his adorable baby brother as a prop, and Peter remembering the one that became an actual girlfriend.

oh awww, that's adorable. although i gotta say i can't imagine young!nathan, with that face, ever having trouble picking up chicks. i'm pretty sure the actor they got to play young!nathan was nowhere near as lovely looking as AP was at that age. maybe he was trying to show peter how it was done, since apparently nathan taught peter how to do everything!

...but that makes sense that everyone would talk about her and peter would remember. i apparently also forgot that millie was a family friend! maybe it's that i was so shocked at nathan-plausible-deniability-petrelli actually attempting to take responsibility for his actions i tried to block that whole plotline out.

Date: 2010-03-01 10:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cadesama.livejournal.com
although i gotta say i can't imagine young!nathan, with that face, ever having trouble picking up chicks.

Oh, probably not, but I also imagine he would acquire the reputation of being a playboy very, very quickly. That makes having the little brother around a good strategy, since it plays up what a sweet, nurturing guy he is and off sets his "use you and lose you" reputation. Teaching Peter how it's done, though, I'd say also factored in. Even if it never really seemed to work, since Peter thought hitting on Simone via "well, I hope we're not related. that would be awkward" was a viable strategy in the pilot.

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